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I prefer the DOS version

AoE is better imo

>>147924
agreed

It is nice. A bit simplistic after you have tried Red Alert and especially something new like Tiberian Sun. Although even the latter lacks some quality of life still.

>>147922
Do you play in DOSBox? I finished RA recently and it lagged a bit with lots of infantry or several air units on the screen.

>>147927
Increase cycles

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It's a fun game but the aspect of waiting to build stuff and waiting for a unit to be trained and so on bugs me a little.
I like the speed of Stronghold and Stronghold Crusader where some aspects are limited by how fast your peasants can work but some other aspects like building new buildings or walls or whatever are pretty much instant and only dependent on how many resources you have.

Resource gathering is also not overly simplistic like "whoever has the most money wins" or whatever. Even if you have a lot of gold and can use the market you still need to think about how to spend the resources.

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>>147960
You are supposed to be doing things while your buildings are being constructed and your units are being produced and trained. Scouting with something, raiding with something, defending somewhere. Re-positioning your units to prevent something, deny something, pull out enemy units somewhere. Computer-controlled players are anything but bright, but they still react to you somewhat sensibly. On top of doing things on their own.

Economy is only this simple at a first glance too. In C&C games it is a bit different, but in Red Alert ore fields regenerate very slowly so you need to balance initial spending to get more refineries and/or harvesters against total ore availability.
Base defences are also not yet lousy in these older games so you can get pretty good trades this way, saving you lots of money.

Different old games that have been called "classics" for decades have different strengths and weaknesses but they can often be not as simple as they seem.
But puzzle missions generally suck after you've completed a few of them.

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>>147970
>>Different old games that have been called "classics" for decades have different strengths and weaknesses but they can often be not as simple as they seem.

This. Dune II is a nightmare to get into in 2025. The whole interface is just so archaic.

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>>148000
Hotkeys are your best friend, anon. I have played it yet again 4 years ago, still perfectly good despite some of the controls not being as good as in C&C or RA. In fact it is better than even RA in at least one regard: you can see your power balance inside the game as numbers, instead of having to keep a tally in your head. And I would add rocks passable only by infantry to that list too.

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>>148036
Its kind of strange that warcraft 1 improved so much upon Dune's 2 formula despite essentialy being it;s ripoff.

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>>148038
Kind of but also not really. It removed way too much to avoid lawsuits. Dune II has superweapons, air units (even if rather simple ones), capturable buildings, neutral factions (sandworms and Fremen belong to the same one even), things like Sonic Tank introducing a precursor to TypeImmune flag and concept, regenerating source of income which actually can be interacted with (blooms), buildings require power so windtraps are a point of weakness, units can be repaired and even brought right back afterwards, reinforcements, cloaked units (Saboteur, even if it was badly bugged on release), terrain-dependent unit speed, infantry squads "degrading" to single soldier on reaching half HPs, Deviator, vehicles crushing infantry and the aforementioned rocks, units that can be used as suicide bombers via self-destruct (something Blizzard copied in WC2), starport to buy units at variable prices and in bulk (and some not on your faction's tech tree), units and structures having several weapons which they can use for different types of targets (Troopers and Rocket Turret; but in later games it became much more common).

Blizzard only caught up to some of that in their sequel, which by then had the problem of having only 9 units per "team" and you could only band-box it while C&C allowed you to memorize a selected team to one of the 10 hotkeys and had no limit on band-box selection size. But at least they competed well and made good games too. WC2 looks great today, and the music is still good as well.

>>148040
>regenerating source of income which actually can be interacted with (blooms)
Actually I made a mistake here because while it would have been accurate to the books, worms do not spawn those Spice blooms in the game. I think they do in the remake and definitely in "Emperor - Battle for Dune", but not in the original. Although the next step is pretty obvious and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the C&C's Tiberium respawning retained some of the lines from those blooms.

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>>148040
>>But at least they competed

I'd say that they even beat Westwood by the late 90's. Tiberian Sun couldn't compete with Starcraft and neither could Red Alert 2. By early 00's Warcraft 3 has established itself as one of the best on-line games of the time, and Westwood had no answer to that.

>>148111
TibSun is one of the most atmospheric games I've ever played, and it's one of the best RTS campaigns ever made, period. The game fought you as much as your opponent, with ion storms, radioactive tiberium, mutants roaming the map, civilians running around screaming as buildings explode in cities you fight in. The game felt apocalyptic, like the world was ending. It was better than anything Blizzard ever did. It's a fucking shame the source code is lost, we'll never get a proper remaster unless they make it completely from scratch on a new engine.

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>>148140
>>It was better than anything Blizzard ever did.

Maybe in terms of atmosphere/story/setting but not in terms of mechanics/balance etc. It simply couldn't compete with much more popular title.

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>>148111
Depends entirely on what you enjoy those games for foremost. I can't get attached to abstractionist pictures which is why I never got into shooting floor tiles with whatever abysmal picmip was the rage at the time in Q3. Same reason I burn out on MP-heavy games quickly. I did get very good at BroodWar back when the latest patch was something like v1.07 and then it started feeling like another job after just a few years.

>>148140
And this is one of the many aspects of what draws me to a game, even to an RTS which have lots and lots of limitations baked into their very design.
Also, despair not, Vinifera is pretty good.
https://github.com/Vinifera-Developers/Vinifera

>>148173
The people that obsessed with multiplayer balance are what killed RTS games. They became hyper competitive and killed all incentive for people to just enjoy it and the genre died save for the very small hardcore playerbase that stayed obsessed over competitive play.

>>148185
It's the developers who got bent over by managers who lick shareholder boots that are to blame. When it became profit above everything else, no matter the cost, it became a walking corpse that still superficially resembled the real deal.
In theory there is nothing wrong with MP-heavy games because variety is good. Both can co-exist. But in practice greed strangles everything else.

>>148196
SC2 balance is currently dictated by the pro players, aka the balance council
said players also make a living off of these matches
it's like US politicians being able to trade stocks

>>148247
People like that are also ruining the balance in a fucking Total War game. MPfags are ruining balance since units aren't separated from multiplayer to singleplayer, so it completely fucks up singleplayer campaigns. God forbid skaven or elves get nerfed or even let another faction have ranged units half as powerful as them.

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>>148248
Separating SP and MP modes is a pretty good idea. Nothing wrong with MP in general, I know that from lots of LAN experience. But MP tends to shift focus away from the substance of a specific game to just numbers being thrown against numbers. LAN usually teeters on the brink without fully going into either direction because you have to play with people you know well enough. There can also be difficulty modes in SP which, when done well, can be fun optional challenges too.
So the problem comes from some mix of the average player and turning playing a video game into a business.

Either way, that's a not particularly great topic to dwell on which is why I tried getting Dune 2000 running on a whim and boy, is it an obvious reskin of Red Alert when you play one soon after another. Except they somehow axed the whole controllable air unit system RA has in process and left the player with just Carryalls and Prnithopters which are about as useless as parabombs from Badgers. And I think there is no ability to change key bindings either.
Although probably the worst sin of this game is Emperor using many of changes 2k introduced and its mechanics in general instead of going back to the original.

>>148339
yea but its based because worms jump out of the sand and eat ur harvesters

>>148339
Try playing it through openRA.

>>148384
I can mod the game myself, no need for someone else's. It is conceptually unsalvageable due to borrowing too much from RA.

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>>148248
>units aren't separated from multiplayer to singleplayer.

This is what WC3 did right, it separated Battle.net balance from campaigns balance. BTW wc3 custom maps were fucking amazing too.

>>148393
That's fine and all but openRA is a big engine overhaul, too. Resolution scaling, etc. Give it a try.

>>148427
>a big engine overhaul, too.
So it's not the actual game, it's someone's interpretation. And not just minor changes like unit A does more damage and unit B has more HPs. Like a total conversion mod.
>Resolution scaling, etc.
I don't care. I play in the original resolution and let my video card do the upscaling. Works great.
>Give it a try.
Nah.

>>148111
>Do you love nothing?
>I love to win.